Steve Skojec writing at InsideCatholic offers an excellent reflection on a certain problem that exists among “traditionalists”: an habitual bitterness that they just can’t shake and don’t want to shake. The author offers plenty of mea culpas for his past attitudes and an excellent reflection on how to normalize one’s Catholic identity even while loving the older form of Mass. One of the great joys of Summorum is that does mark the beginning of the end of this rather serious problem.
19 Replies to “Traditionalists after Summorum”
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I always used to think traditionalists had issues with charity. I thought they tended to be kind of grumpy and bitter. Then I read 'pray tell' …
You assume that bitterness is a logical, rational response. Take away the initial stimulus, and the bitterness will recede. Problem is, that in the modern culture of Phil and Oprah (Not blaming them–just calling them out as two chief vendors) it's all about feeling the feelings and once you've lost that, the pop gurus have no next step for you.
My take is that bitterness is an internal choice, and once made, it is hard to divest of it.
My sad prediction is that SP will do nothing for the "feelings" involved in this alienation. SP wasn't about feelings anyway. And if one takes it to a logical extreme, traditionalists should just be more embittered and angry–look what the last episode netted them.
For the record, I don't see a lack of charity, or bitterness, or any such observation of emotion as being the exclusive domain of any political, liturgical, or ideological camp. Better to just set aside one's feelings and talk about the issues.
kind of like the bitterness being displayed by liberals over the new Mass translations. That's clearly all about feelings rather than substance. Todd, do you like the current translation of "et cum spiritu tuo" "and also with you" or do you prefer "and with your Spirit."
Objections to the MR3 translation has come from all quarters, not just liberals. The chant scholar Peter Jeffrey has a good takedown of Liturgiam Authenticam. And a lot of other conservatives are alarmed at the dithering on the CDWDS and Vox Clara level.
I think I've stated my objections more on a rational level. Certainly enough to inspire a few LA supporters to deviate from topic and get personal.
As for the translation of the response, I have no strong feeling either way. Both forms communicate a ritual response in a way that won't be mistaken for a secular greeting.
But if you'll permit me to pick a nit here, "and with your Spirit" is an accurate translation of "et cum Spiritu tuo," not what you have written. Which do you prefer: a rewriting of the Latin original or an accurate rendering?
May I also ask why you don't use your name and a link? Just curious.
because i cannot figure out how to apply for a Google account and make it sign in correctly.
I followed the rabbit hole from the link here into the Pants debate, along with a few other detours. It reminded me of why I stopped reading Catholic blogs (other than the Cafe).
The way all these issues get wrapped up together (Chant Champion = Liturgical Traddie = Othodox Theology = Extreme Conservatism = Husbands and Fathers Dictate What Women Wear, and Any Personal Choice on the Part Comes Only At By their Man/Caretaker's Delegation of Authority = The Earth is at the Center of the Universe) is maddening.
Thankfully, even as the CMAA Forums and the Cafe seem to be majority-conservative (as should be expected), diverse opinions flourish here with little squelching and few insults. This seems to be the only place on the Catholic internet where you can like Traditional sorts of things without being required to like/dislike or agree/disagree with other things. (You mean I can like Chant and hate fiddlebacks? You mean I can like fiddlebacks and prefer versus populum? You mean I can prefer ad orientem but love the Novus Ordo? You mean I can like the Extraordinary Form and hate the organ? YES!)
It's more diverse than an Episcopalian investiture liturgy!
Do people argue? Do people debate? Do people occasionally attempt orthodoxy-shibboleth exercises based on translation preferences? Sure. But at least no one is going to tell me I'm going to hell or contributing to the down fall of Western Civilization because I let my wife wear pants.
"because i cannot figure out how to apply for a Google account and make it sign in correctly."
Fair enough. But when I see someone sign their name, it's enough for me to disregard the anonymous moniker. You can also do name and URL.
Any thought on capitalization, and why that doesn't get translated accurately?
Todd, are you asleep? "And with your Spirit" is what I wrote as the translation of "et cum spiritu tuo." That either translation of that phrase is fine with you, it tells me volumes as to where you're coming from.
Unfortunately, this comment thread is not a good example.
Not sure it's just about feelings, Todd. People were attached to the older form because of a whole host of things, some rational, some not (as is to be expected). What was irrational was not the response of the traditionalists so much as the "initial stimulus" – the total ban on the older liturgy and, in many cases, a condescending dismissal of anything seen to be connected with it (Latin, popular devotions, Benediction, etc.)
Is it time for the trads to "get over" all of this? Probably. But telling them it's all just a matter of feelings isn't very helpful toward that aim.
"Todd, are you asleep?"
Hardly. Just noticing Capitalization.
"Is it time for the trads to 'get over' all of this?"
I'm far from suggesting they do. It might well be that some people have reason to be bitter, and they need to work it out in their own good time. I'm making an observation: people are bitter for emotional reasons, not rational ones. SP won't budge those feelings, imo. I could be wrong, but my guess here is based on years of working in Catholic parishes.
Jeffrey,
Thanks for the link to my article. Nice to find some calm, rational discussion about it. Being a social media professional, I get notifications when my name pops up on the web. A number of the other discussions of this particular piece have been far less…Christian.
Steve, I happened upon your article at IC and passed it on to JT as I very much appreciated the underlying issues you portrayed. I revisited the article and combox today, whew! But when Zmirak lines up with you, take heart I say!
My only TLM experiences have pretty much been ideal, as I've invested in them with my CMAA colleagues over four years, and we musicians are, well, weird and insular! I did attend a local EF in my diocese by the LMA/FSSP with m' bride, and we weren't put off by anyone for her lack of a mantilla, or by my insistence upon chanting the ordinary with the male schola. But I have noticed that there seems to be an atmosphere of "exceptionalism" among TLM folk that almost seems akin to "fundamentalist" traits one would find in Pentecostal, Amish, Quaker or breakaway Mormon sects. Please, folks, don't infer any equation in that observation. I just marvel at scenarios of sequestered, incredibly mannered, home-school families one day getting stocked up at Costco and then reverently gathered at worship the next.
Were that all things about Catholic Worship emulated the universality of a CMAA Colloquium.
Goodness.
There appears to be quite a bit of typecasting of "Trads" in this whole discussion prompted by Skojec's article, and it is most distressing. I belong to one of the most "Trad" parishes in California – St. Margaret Mary's in Oakland, where the very first post-Vat 2 TLM in California was celebrated – Sept. 10, 1989. I can assure you that the people I know who attend the weekly or daily TLMs at St. MM are some of the warmest, most faithful, joyful and charitable Catholics I've known.
Is there some occasional snarking about the Novus Ordo (or, rather its abuses)? Sure. But it's not bitterness that prompts this critique any more than the criticisms BXVI has of those abuses in his "Spirit of the Liturgy" – some of which are rather pointed – could be ascribed to "bitterness."
Any open-minded person who reads the thread about this at AngelQueen linked by Sjokec in his follow-up will see that they are in fact quite joyful and have a great sense of humor about themselves.
Good to hear about California, and it doesn't entirely surprise me. In most parts of the country, however, the priests and musicians who serve the 1962 Missal joke that this is the "Mass we love for the people we hate." It is affectionate joke but one that seems to confirm what Steve Skojec is saying.
My dear, honored Professor Frank,
I hope you didn't take my observations as derogatory typecasting of RC TLM folk I've encountered. I specifically asked that not be the case of equating certain impressions as stereotypical. For the greatest part, my experience with the people who treasure the Usus Antiquior is typified with fondness, warmth and acceptance. My very first encounter in my later life was a Old St. Mary's, D.C., and I was alone among my peers, and that "alienation" only required a second go round to get over.
How are things up north?
@My esteemed, former student Charles,
Your comments were not among those that prompted my observations. It is more of a general assumption (primarily in comments on other blogs) that "we all know" what Traddies are like – a kind of pigeon-holing that I felt needs to be challenged with counter examples based on interactions with flesh and blood Traddies — not their straw men stand-ins.
Since you asked, my first Mass, "Missa Cordi Sacro", composed for our 12:30 Tridentine Mass, will debut on October 17. I'm proud of our small but dedicated choir for all their work in preparing it.
Interesting comments, both here and on the original over at Inside Catholic. My own experience has been mixed – and I've been a great defender of the Novus Ordo and of the right to the Extraordinary Form. Consequently, I've been attacked by all sorts of people whenever I stick my neck out. There are annoying crackpots in every liturgical pie.
Our best hope for the Novus Ordo's improvement is cross-fertilization from the Extraordinary Form. For the EF, particularly in the USA, we need to identify clearly what is Tradition (with a capital "T") and what is custom (also known as tradition with a small "t").