About “The Interview”

There’s an old saying: Once you’re ordained a bishop, you’ll never again hear the truth or eat a bad meal. And Pope Francis is turning this sense of the hierarchy upside down.

Part of being human and social and fallible and sensitive is a strong aversion to taking responsibility for our own inadequacies and mistakes. Things aren’t as they should be, I’m not as I should be. I like to think of myself as part of the solution, but actually I’m part of the problem too. This is hard to admit.

So I don’t. Instead, I point fingers.

The closer someone is to Jesus, the more the Pope takes him/her to task. The farther away, the more he beckons them to be closer. You can argue with this as a strategy, but in any case, it’s the Gospel. Jesus didn’t say, “Get thee behind me, Satan” to Pontius Pilate. He said this to Peter. He welcomed sinners and ate with them, while constantly upbraiding his own. “He scourges every son He receives.” “He prunes the fruitful branches.”

Note that in the interview, some of the Pope’s strongest criticisms are of his own leadership as a Jesuit superior.

For all we might have learned by actual persecutions of the Church, still, flattery is everywhere. I remember noticing this at my first real Church job. People deferred to me, just because of my position. It seemed weird. Still does. When people whom I know well and serve personally say thanks in some way, ok, that makes sense. But when those employed by a parish (or diocese or universal Church) act like a faultless elite, there’s a problem. “You know that among the Gentiles…the great ones make their authority felt. It cannot be like that with you.”

The only intellectually consistent way to get through a day without faulting myself is by faulting others. Things aren’t right, obviously. Someone is wrong. O yes, “them.”

What if, without abandoning our labors for the good, the true, and the beautiful, we all did a better job of the personal examen, which if I understand correctly is the most important of the Jesuit daily spiritual practices, so much so that if because of time pressure no other prayer is possible, the examination of conscience must never be omitted. What if each minister in the Church sat before God every day and said, “Lord, show me my mistakes. My mistakes, and not anothers. Show me how to change my ways for your glory and the good of the people.” Somehow, I think we would all cheer up. We’d start thinking more creatively, considering real solutions and best practices.

I was sitting on the church steps tonight after adoration, keeping an older friend company while her ride was on its way. A man came by, said a very cheery “Good evening,” and went to look at the sign to see when Mass times are on Sunday. No doubt he’d just watched the news. I couldn’t help thinking that he probably thought his mistaken views were now compatible with Catholic doctrine, now that the news said that the Pope said so. That’s a sort of frustrating pastoral thought, and yes, there will probably be a spike this year in the number of doctrinal/ pastoral corrections that will be going in the RCIA.

Take it as a form of flattery. You don’t strongly criticize a kid practicing scales, all thumbs. But a reviewer may take a concert pianist to task. The new Christian, the returning Christian, though often he puts us elder sons to shame from the get-go, will have a time of trial. But first, let him be drawn closer. And let the grownups take one for the team.

13 Replies to “About “The Interview””

  1. Thank you very much Todd.

    I hope you do like what I've said here. The point is self-criticism, looking to change myself, not others. Questioning my own approach to pastoral problems.

    For me, this means Kathy-criticism, finding fault with me.

    For you, that means Todd-criticism.

    Are you in?

  2. I was, I believe, a successful Catholic school principal for several years. But I knew it was time to retire when I consistently sent memos to my leadership team for critique, and consistently heard back nothing. When people assume that everything you do is correct, it's time to let the Holy Spirit move you elsewhere before some catastrophe strikes. There's that bit in 1 Cor about never rejoicing over the faults of others.

  3. You nailed it, Kathy. What the pope is getting at is that conversion comes first, then moral issues. My first thought was that he was a bit naive about the postmodern West, that many people will take "judge not" as "I'm OK, you're OK" relativism.

    The more I thought about it, the more I saw what you're writing here. We need to draw people to Christ first, when instead we sometimes start at the other end. Our morality is meaningless without Him, and He can change hearts much better than we can change minds.

  4. I should have been clearer about the relevance of these remarks for us musicians.

    At least they "strike that chord" with me 😉

  5. The fault is mine…I think I was just sick of the whole thing. That said, your points helped put it all in perspective.

  6. Part 1 – Overall, I found what Fr. Spadaro let us see (through his refracted lens) was a profound and interesting man of the church in Pope Francis.

    But I was struck that Francis, via Spadaro, expressed his concern about not being a "right-winger." The context was about the exercise of authority, and he was critiquing himself when, as a young man of 36, he was thrust into the role of provincial in the SJ, and he felt he made some mistakes not consulting others. I'm sure many of us who have had to exercise authority would share and express some regrets like his.

  7. Part 2 – But this seems like an odd topic of concern. I mean, I'm 57, and there isn't any big problem in the Catholic Church of our time with authoritarianism. The whole topic of authority seems to be a major issue in the Society of Jesus, and The Church at large. It seems to be a pre-occupation, and for many, including Bishops and Provincials, an obsession.

    I am beginning to believe that our Church is manifesting the same emotional struggle with the idea of authority as my teen-age children. One reason why the "professional Church" has suppressed the so-called Eucharistic Prayer #1, the Roman Canon, is that it prays to Our Father that he help govern his Church. People who don't want to be governed, or to exercise authority, ought to contemplate the end of St. Matthew's gospel.

  8. Part 3 – It is painfully ironic that the Spadaro article ended with Pope Francis making an appeal to tradition and memory. Our poor Church has lost its mind. The Church threw out the central prayer of its very own cult, the ancient live oak, the sequoia of Catholicism, The Roman Canon, saying to itself and the world: we reject what our ancestors in faith handed down to us – we are creating our own "new tradition."

    "New Tradition" is ideology from 5th Avenue marketing firms. One of the top American designers even had a clothing line by that name.

  9. Part 4 – The current post-Vatican II Church establishment looks pathetic when it makes claims to "tradition," while at the same time throwing out the main traditions.

    In its thirst for life, I fear that the Church is drinking not from the living waters, but from the river of forgetfulness, the very River Lethe of Greek mythology. At the end of his life, Pope John Paul II wrote his last book, which was entitled: "Memory and Identity."

    Our Church needs to wake up and embrace its own identity. We need to break out of the destructive ideology of old versus new, which is constantly thrust upon us by the pagan pop culture. We need to enter the open field of what transcends time, the ancient living wood of tradition. We are suppressing continuity itself! If The Catholic Church wants to be itself, then it must show solidarity with our ancestors who prayed before us. We must embrace the truth of "Continuity," which admits change – and reject the false ideology of "Change," which admits no memory, no identity, and no tradition.

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