41 Replies to “In Keeping with the Embrace of Tradition”

  3. Forgive me for being the thick one who ruins the joke by asking for an explanation, but… is this the "Mass of Creation" Gloria?

  6. For those of us that musically inclined… but try and appreciate it and use this blog as an educational source… I want to know the joke. I have ideas in my mind, but am not musically inclined enough to simply "get it."

    Can't you give us the answer via comment?

  7. You know, the original piece has enough modal flavor to translate into a decent piece of chant. But from what I've heard lately, I prefer Mr Ostrowski's setting.

    That said, you should hear what the original composer did to O Filii et Filiae. A round of laughs for all.

  8. Angels, this is the "Mass of Creation" Gloria set to chant notation.

    Sort of reminds me of my favorite hymn: Congrega Nos.

  10. Just for fun, the other day I amused myself by chanting "Gather Us In" to a rather formulaic Mode I melody… I decided that while it's possible to set classic liturgical texts to modern melodies (I say it's possible), the idea really doesn't work as well the other way…

  12. I'm curious about the episema over the "ple." According to the way it is usually sung, this suggests a quantitative interpretation of the little horizontal mark.

  15. LOL. Though in keeping with oral tradition and inculturation, the text should read, "and peace to _God's_ people on earth."

  17. What a hoot! I wonder whether this form would survive quiet, seamless organ chords gently supporting the flow of the triple- meter-in-one! Probably not!

  18. JUST NOT THE GLORIA OF THE BELLS!!!! I BESEECH THEE!

    Isn't that just a metrical Mass VIII Gloria?

  21. Just glad to hear that "Gloria of the Bells" is not only a local abomination.

    I hope it never has to be heard again, by anyone, but it at least restores faith in my own parish that they aren't the only ones in this country trivial enough to accept that as a Gloria setting. What an embarrassment!

  22. Also would like to point out how horrendous this looks in Gregorian notation. Compare with actual chants, endorsed by the church as sung prayer that is appropriate to her liturgy. Not to suggest that the notation itself be the standard by which the "liturgical quality" be measured, but it is rather interesting how awfully these sorts of settings are transcribed to the notation proper to the church's sung prayer.

    As my parish priest would say, "Go figure."

  23. Anon V: Can you comment on how this would look in St. Gall or Laon notation? Or do we know for a fact that the angels chant from modern Solesmes notation?

    For that matter, do the first couple of bars of the MOC Gloria really look any more "horrendous" in Gregorian notation than, say, the first few bars of, say, <a href="http://www.globalchant.org/view-source.php?src=Gr&page=%5B63%5D>this <i>Filiae regum</i></a>? It hardly strikes me that that would be some sort of a priori truth.

  26. "how bout the gloria setting to angels we have heard on high!?"

    Others give the Proulx adaptations a thumbs up, but I'm a skeptic. I loathe teaching a new Gloria to an assembly, especially a through-sung effort. But I don't need to resort to musical trickery to get it done.

    The french carol in question sings pretty well as a faux-Renaissance piece that jumps between 3 and 2 time. Not everything can be adapted to plainsong.

  27. Just btw, I'm having a heck of a time trying to understand how someone could take umbrage at this bit of amusement or the comments here.

  28. I hope Fr. Anthony's having the same reaction to the reprint under "humor" at his joint.
    There are folks here, there and everywhere that supply folks like Monty Python, SNL, and Colbert years of material.
    C'mon people, make all the plans in earnest you want, God's still gonna laugh.
    If God didn't have a sense of humor, why did He invent Hostess Fruit Pies?

  29. It was way funny. It was aptly described as a "chuckle."

    But this "conservatives are uncharitable" cliche is heartily not funny. (Fortunately I don't think anybody really buys it anymore, if they ever did.)

  30. Kathy,

    My take was that the critic followed the links to the sites commenters provided. And if he read some threads, he would indeed have found ugly comments not only from the internet's most widespread commentator, but also avowed CMAA members.

    Archbishop Chaput once characterized liberals as crude and conservatives as mean.

    I think there's some truth to the notion that people can be real beasts on the internet. And many don't realize it.

  31. Hmm. Nice theory, Todd, but I followed the links and found very little to be embarassed about. Nothing, frankly. And if you're right, then all of us, including you, were called uncharitable. You're ok with that?

  32. Kathy,

    You're used to the antics of Noel, Michael, and some others. I've come to accept them as part of the decor. The 100-plus post thread on CMAA about David Haas sure won't win any converts.

    The blogosphere, by its very nature, can run deeply in an uncharitable vein. I certainly have been part of that, as have you. I'm not okay with that, but you know, there's always hope for better behavior next time.

  33. What's an "assembly?" Is that some tired jargon from the 60s or 70s like "presider"? I generally teach the congregation, a more universal term.

  34. "What's an "assembly?" Is that some tired jargon from the 60s or 70s like "presider"? I generally teach the congregation, a more universal term."

    Actually, it's 2002, GIRM 18, 27, 30, 31, 36, and several other times. There's nothing wrong with the word.

  35. Alas, for a moment I forgot that the GIRM has maintained the Bugnini language manufactured for the Novus Ordo. Presider, instead of priest or celebrant; assembly, instead of the faithful or the congregation. But those sterile terms match so very well the current banal and trite ICEL translations. Fortunately in my experience of having been in 10 parishes over 50 years, the priests, organists and choir directors have avoided that terminology. With a little luck, just like the French Revolutionary Calendar, these terms will be swept away in the next codification of the GIRM.

  36. Um, Bugnini was an Italian. "Assembly" is an English word. Apparently approved over and over by the CDWDS.

    The current issue of the GIRM accompanies MR3. So that post-Revolution edition will have to wait for MR4.

    The current GIRM, also refers to one of the roles of the priest-celebrant as that of a presidency. That word and other forms appears several times in the English edition of the GIRM, too.

    Personally, I find the fine distinctions between congregation (also a synonym for Roman dicastery), the faithful, and assembly to be very helpful in writing and speaking.

  37. Todd,

    The complaints were about this thread, as one can see by reading comment #18 on the pt thread. It was an overreaction, and it was name-calling.

  38. Ah, well I zeroed in on this comment, "My comment was about many of the BLOGS on that one thread. Check it out for yourselves. Much of it is (or, at least, WAS last night) defamatory."

    When Fr Krisman mentioned "BLOGS" I assumed he followed the links on some people's names, and continued from there.

    As for this thread, it's actually pretty tame compared to some stuff at CMAA.

  39. Gosh, Todd, without you pointing it out I never would have figured out that Archbishop Bugnini was an Italian. Thanks so much for enlightening someone like me!

  40. Todd, d'ya think Padre K waded through my archives deep? Or even put a toe in the kiddie pool? Kinda doubt it. But I've been "nuanced" so all's right at PT now, the laity having again defended an errant, mistaken cleric.
    This thread may, indeed, be "lame," but it sure contains a healthier sense of humor than the others mentioned.
    And I pray tell that someday soon (I hear Linda Ronstadt) you may lose the need to beat that scapegoat named CMAA into a dead horse.
    Cheerful Charlie out.

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